Help for I am wavering and about to commit sin!

[Overread]

Aye I'm considering a zoom lens or possibly armed theft!
Ok maybe that is no longer as great a sin as I am lead to belive from my readings within the teachings of masters of past years - but still the zoom I am considering is one of the most hotly debated.

I've (as some might be aware) been trying to find myself a nice cheap (comparativly speaking) telephoto lens since the western world decided to snub photographers and have price rises over the last year or two which has pushed my dream beyond my grasp for a good time ahead (that being the 300mm f2.8 IS L). So with that in mind I met the choice many have been confrunted by

300mm f4 IS L
400mm f5.6 L
100-400mm L
and the new 50-500mm OS from sigma

However for each I found great shots, excuses to purchase and people who found them ideal. Choosing was harder still as each holds a very similar price to the other. However I then approached the question backwards and asked of users of expensive telephotos what (if any) their cheaper and ligher support lenses were. Most came back saying that a good 70-200mm was in the bag (luckly I have that covered already) and many said that they had held onto their 100-400mm Ls. Some saying that they activly used it, others saying they'd never got the will to sell it and some even rebuying the lens after initially selling it. Thus far no one has claimed to having either 300mm f4 or 400mm f5.6 in the bag. Oh and one or two said that their 300mm f2.8 was their lighter lens ;)

So long term it appears that the zoom is the way forward - and into that I have been debating between the new 50-500mm OS and the 100-400mm L. However thus far all I can find on both is mixed (But posetive) reviews of the 50-500mm OS on POTN whilst only one current direct comparison review which paints the 100-400mm as still holding the lead
http://www.juzaphoto.com/eng/articles/sigma_50-500_os_hsm_vs_canon_100-400.htm
Although some have questioned if the copy Juza had did infact have some sample variation in its OS as it faird very poorly against the 100-400mm IS.

So it seems that lens I thought I would never go for, a 100-400mm L is possibly on the cards. Does anyone think I have lost the plot here and that I am going to regret this? Thus far even if I chose the other zoom quality control and sample variation in both means the lens would have to be tested upon purchase and might require returning/recalibration before a copy is found that works well with my 400D.

It seems to be either this or I trek my way south and mug either the Otter King or Gary for their 300mm f2.8 (probably go for Gary... he's not quite so far south ;) )

[Rekd]

I've been looking for a new lens too and you've really put things into perspective. Thanks for doing some of the homework I hadn't done.

I'm looking to spend a couple grand and the 100-400 looks real promising. I think the gating factor for me is if I'm ready for it. Perhaps a trip to Calumet is in order to test it out for a week.:cheers:

[Battou]

Thus far no one has claimed to having either 300mm f4 or 400mm f5.6 in the bag. Oh and one or two said that their 300mm f2.8 was their lighter lens ;)

Well.....being an owner of a third party 400mm f5.6 and well as well as a third party 60-300 f/5.6 I can assure you this is simply because the 400 and 300mm primes do not fit in the bag. Considering the digital equivalent Canon mount Sigma 70-200 is comperable in barrel leingh to my 400 f/5.6 I highly doubt anything bigger going to fit in a bag, thus requiring one to carry additional baggage in order to carry that lens as well as additional lenses.

What you need to first answer is simple. Do you intend to carry around multiple lenses at all times or are you buying this lens for dedicated wildlife and long range outings where only the one lens is necessary.

If you are going for dedicated long range outings, Go big or go home, Go with the prime telephoto. With dedicated long range outings you can take the tripod out and sit and wait for the shot to come to you and it's carry weight is not a concern.

If you are going for a carry all for spontanious shooting that could go from long to short range in a moments notice go for the lighter smaller lenses that'll fit in the bag.


My 400mm 5.6 is carried every where with me, you know this. If you want to consider that "In the Bag" go for it ;)

[Overread]

Rekd - remember my current thinking is based on me spending several grand in £ at a later date on a 300mm f2.8 lens - if you are only going as far as the 100-400mm and similar price range you will want to research the other options (the primes) really well for the quality they offer.
Have fun testing it out :)

Battou - I think you missunderstand - by in the bag I was more meaning in their collection, rather than in the bag with the 300mm f2.8 all the time. Most only used the 100-400mm as a lighter lens for days when the 300mm f2.8 is just not needed or not possible to take or for when they want to go on a walk without doing weight training at the same time ;)
As for carrying around lenses I intend both multiple setups and single setups and both walks and hide work. I think that is moving me toward the eventual dual setup of the zoom and the ultra prime. I could certainly use a 300mm f4 or a 400mm f5.6 and be very happy with either - but long term when the f2.8 hits the deck I'll always want to take it because I could get the exact same shot and verstility with it over the other two, but with higher quality.

[Battou]

Yes I did, This is due to my having both a "collection" and a "bag". When I say in the bag I mean it is going with ;)

[Lord Montagu the 3rd]

I know a shop that just happens to have a nice used 400mm F5.6L if you know what I mean, comes with a nice box, case and caps etc etc

[Overread]

Gah you evil Lordship!
A mighty tempting offer - but I think even if I were warming to the primes I'd be after the 300mm f4 IS - I'm really too used to IS in just my 70-200mm and I think going to 400mm I would have even more need for IS - esp when handholding.

[icassell]

Gah you evil Lordship!
A mighty tempting offer - but I think even if I were warming to the primes I'd be after the 300mm f4 IS - I'm really too used to IS in just my 70-200mm and I think going to 400mm I would have even more need for IS - esp when handholding.

Interestingly, I have read that many who have gone from the 100-400 IS (1380g) to the 400/5.6 (1250g) have felt that losing that weight combined with the improved focusing speed has made up for the lack of IS.

[Overread]

True but long term if I have a (albeit heavier) 300mm f2.8 IS L and a 400m f5.6 I know exactly which one won't be seeing much use ;)

however this test here is worrying me a bit!
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=2&FLIComp=7&APIComp=1&LensComp=113&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLI=5&API=0

This however is really shocking
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=687&Camera=453&Sample=2&FLI=5&API=2&LensComp=103&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=6&APIComp=0

!! !! gah I want to swap now!

[Battou]

If you are concerned about stability wile handholding a 400mm, one trick I use is to keep a short travel tripod attached to the lens running back towards the body. When holding the camera you can butt the feet of the tripod to your shoulder and hold the camera like a rifel. This will increase the stability considerably.

As seen here
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/battousaiofnphiles/Photos/Portraits/Photos%20of%20Me/100_5014.jpg
Bigger here (http://www.photo-lucidity.com/pic-1897.html)

I usually keep the legs together but that one is getting old and a little loose, it's facing replacement :(

[icassell]

Here's another option to Battou's good suggestion:

http://bushhawk.com/

[icassell]

True but long term if I have a (albeit heavier) 300mm f2.8 IS L and a 400m f5.6 I know exactly which one won't be seeing much use ;)

!

And then you can give it to me :) :)

[Rekd]

If you are concerned about stability wile handholding a 400mm, one trick I use is to keep a short travel tripod attached to the lens running back towards the body. When holding the camera you can butt the feet of the tripod to your shoulder and hold the camera like a rifel. This will increase the stability considerably.

Interesting... Been plenty of times I wish I had that while hiking or doing other stuff. How does something like that work for panning like with motorsports?

[Battou]

Interesting... Been plenty of times I wish I had that while hiking or doing other stuff. How does something like that work for panning like with motorsports?


Well...being that my 400mm f/5.6 is fully manual I have considerable difficulties with moving targets. My problems however are in the turning of the focusing ring wile panning, That said I have only pulled the trigger on a panned shot twice. I can follow the target just fine but my focus is off or my timing was off. With Auto Focus you should be just fine. The same rules apply It's just a matter of following the subject and turning your body correctly and level, I find it's a lot more free than trying to pan with a full tripod. That is why the only two attempts where I actually took the shot where both done with the shoulder support, all attempted pans with the full tripod resulted in no shot. More often than not the full tripod gets in my way but then again I am using an inexpencive 2-way tripod.

[Rekd]

Well...being that my 400mm f/5.6 is fully manual I have considerable difficulties with moving targets. My problems however are in the turning of the focusing ring wile panning, That said I have only pulled the trigger on a panned shot twice. I can follow the target just fine but my focus is off or my timing was off. With Auto Focus you should be just fine. The same rules apply It's just a matter of following the subject and turning your body correctly and level, I find it's a lot more free than trying to pan with a full tripod. That is why the only two attempts where I actually took the shot where both done with the shoulder support, all attempted pans with the full tripod resulted in no shot. More often than not the full tripod gets in my way but then again I am using an inexpencive 2-way tripod.

I've never wanted to try panning on a tripod. I'm afraid I'll kick one of the legs out and the whole world will go crashing down.:cheers:

[Antarctican]

Did you succumb to the temptation?

[icassell]

I've never wanted to try panning on a tripod. I'm afraid I'll kick one of the legs out and the whole world will go crashing down.:cheers:
This is why they invented the gimbal mount (e.g. Wimberly).

[Terri]

Did you succumb to the temptation?
He did mention maybe having to commit armed robbery in order to procure this lens. Perhaps young Overread has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. Eh? :hmm:

[Battou]

Did you succumb to the temptation?

yeah.....I am curious to this as well.

[Overread]

He did mention maybe having to commit armed robbery in order to procure this lens. Perhaps young Overread has gotten himself into a bit of trouble. Eh? :hmm:

Sorry guys - took a while to get back - tunneling is not as easy as it looks in all those films ;)

I've certainly given in - at the moment I'm waiting for people down south to mail me up the box that my current 70-200mm came in. After that its time to hunt around for a buyer - sell it - and then get my fingers on the nice shiny new version! :big grin:
all to be done before the government wack up our VAT to 20%! :raisedbrow::-x

[Antarctican]

Sorry guys - took a while to get back - tunneling is not as easy as it looks in all those films ;) :biglaugh:


all to be done before the government wack up our VAT to 20%!

20%???!!! :shock:

[Overread]

Its 17.something% now - but yes its due to rise to 20% :(
It's going to be a major pain on high end purchases!

Worse there were dark dark rumours of putting VAT on food and even raising the VAT from special to full on some products (books for example are something like only 5%VAT as I recall).


And and and - I just realised I forgot to update this thread!!!!!
I've given in, but not to what I said up there - no no! Plans changed
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=869226

After seeing that the 100-400mm is out of the running as is the 50-500mm. Instead the 70-200mm f2.8 IS L is being sold and replaced with the 70-200mm f2.8 IS L M2! Yes its swapping one lens for the other and whilst I joked about it above I didn't really think there would be a massive difference when the 2*TC was brought into the picture. However with real world examples (and some on a 350D later in that linked thread) it does seem to be on par with the 100-400mm at f8 area (which is probably where I would have ended shooting any superzoom at the long end for best sharpness).

The hard part (that that darn lordship makes harder still with his tempting emails!) is paying out the 2k cost all at once on the upgrade. Sadly 70-200mm whilst not my main wildlife range is a range that I find usefull for so many things that I would regret selling the lens and losing that covered range.
The good side is that I get a shiny new lens - new usable 400mm range - and I don't have to get a new camera bag!!

[Terri]

Wow, your plans did change - but you still are ending up with a shiny new lens, and it seems that that was what you were really after. ;)

Gosh, 400 mm :shock: I know that's nothing when you want to shoot wildlife, but my longest telephoto is 200 mm, and that's for my 6x7! :lol: Can't imagine what it's like to scope out the great outdoors with a 400.

[icassell]

You're going to have a blast! I look forward to seeing stuff when you get it! It will be interesting to see how the AF speed works for you when you have the TC on it.

I just checked my FedEx tracking number and my 400/5.6 is here in town, so I should have it on Monday.

[Antarctican]

I just checked my FedEx tracking number and my 400/5.6 is here in town, so I should have it on Monday.
:big grin: <---- Happy for you, but also green with envy!

[Battou]

Seems I'm undergoing some temptation too...Saw the price tag on the EF 75-300 f/5.6 and was seriously considering it..:raisedbrow: